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Post by savtele on Dec 11, 2016 2:18:52 GMT -5
What’s on your mind – how to make kugel? This week’s Torah reading? Life goals? Prayer? We are all engaged in weight loss/weight maintenance journeys and we are all Jewish or at least interested in Judaism. We like to eat, we like to discuss. It is our goal here to provide each other support on our journeys, to share experiences, to call on our rich cultural heritage and texts, and to help each other grow spiritually.
Some of us take weekly turns starting the thread:
Angelika
Holly
Lee
Louise
Lynne
Peachy
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Post by savtele on Dec 11, 2016 2:35:31 GMT -5
Boker Tov All!
This week I would like to talk a little about the juxtaposition of Hanukkah & Christmas - It doesn't happen too often, but this year, the 1st night of Hanukkah is also Christmas Eve. I read an article years ago, showing that the closer to Christmas, the bigger the Hanukkah celebration seems to be. I suppose in some manner this is understandable. When Hanukkah happens a few days after Thanksgiving, it's hard to "christmasize" it very much, LOL. When it happens (as this year) at the very same time - and runs through NYD, it's almost impossible NOT to add a little "extra" oomph!
So - Does your family "add a little extra?" Or is there a nod to what is happening in the houses next door?
In our family there are those who celebrate Hanukkah, those who celebrate Christmas, & those who try to do both (which always seems a little excessive to me). Those who try to do both seem to breath a sigh of relief when there is an overlap. For the rest, there seems to be a toss-up - who goes where, how they will celebrate. Personally, I find it confusing. The fat elf & the reindeer don't fit on my roof or in my psyche. (Although I would think that they might be confusing to a Christian child also!) If one (Jewish or Christian) is celebrating an historic miracle, that seems enough to my mind.
Mind you, I'm an old lady now. Others no doubt see it differently!
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Post by gazelle18 on Dec 11, 2016 5:06:56 GMT -5
THis year, my son, DDIL and their four children will be visiting us, during Hanukkah, for several days. This branch of the family is orthodox. My daughter, DSIL and their two girls, who live in NOLA are reform. So, no one celebrates Christmas, which certainly makes it a lot easier!
When there are no grandkids around, DH and I just tend to ignore the whole holiday ....I try to stay away from the malls, etc. we do have a couple of parties we have to attend for business reasons, but that's about it.
I do think that the December holidays have become way too big of a deal. If I were Christian, I believe e I would abhor the commmercialization of a religious event.
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lee058
This space for rent
Posts: 23,285 
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Post by lee058 on Dec 11, 2016 5:42:12 GMT -5
Good morning everybody. Hope you are all well. Today I could have slept late, but no, I woke up early, so here I am. Everyone else is fast asleep.
Re today's theme: Our Chanukah celebration is about the same, whether it is in November or December. The only thing that is different is that I get to appreciate the effort my neighbors put into lighting up their houses and yards. We're not big on giving gifts; we tend to celebrate more by cooking nice food (especially latkes) and talking about holiday-related themes of freedom and so on. The whole blowout of shopping, sales, and ads that say buy this, that and the other thing just seem weird to me. I feel sorry for people who equate huge quantities of things with love.
Of course, I enjoy fun and parties and holiday goodwill, but it seems to me that too many people are depressed or frustrated this time of year instead.
This year will be a little hard for me because my sister's birthday was December 24th. I will be contacting her partner up in NY to say hello and see how he is doing.
Anyway, I should probably think about doing a few things to celebrate; I have been so caught up in everyday things that I haven't even thought much about Chanukah yet. I still need to buy candles, for instance. But it will all work out --- it always does.
Have a peaceful day, Lee
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Post by savtele on Dec 11, 2016 7:26:00 GMT -5
Lee - I so understand about equating big quantities of things with love. My grandson is married to a young woman who has always bemoaned the fact that adults don't get the big celebrations, parties, gifts for birthdays that little children get.
And I think much of the depression and frustration comes from unmet expectations. Years ago, we had a neighbor who was depressed that she was unable to go home for Christmas. We invited her to our house, (she knew we didn't celebrate Christmas, but we didn't want her to be alone on "her" holiday) Actually, we ended up making quite a party out of it - we dubbed it "Party of 5 Jews and a schikseh!" We all bought pajamas & gave them to each other - seemed appropriate & was hilarious!
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Post by hollygail on Dec 11, 2016 11:14:54 GMT -5
Must leave for morning minyan, then I have a class to attend (yes, I'm a student as well as a teacher...), then home for a quick lunch (and to pack an easy dinner) then off to teach a 6th/7th grade class followed by teaching an adult bnai mitzvah class... You may not see me back until tonight, but I have one or two things to say about today's topic. Angelika, thanks for choosing this one!
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Post by peachymom1 on Dec 11, 2016 13:13:00 GMT -5
Good morning everyone, and shavua tov! It's gray and cold here, and as soon as DH gets out of the shower, we need to run some errands (kosher butcher, drugstore, grocery store, etc.). We'll be back in time for lunch, then we'll have time in the afternoon for naps and then the gym. DH is ready to get back to weight training, and I'll go and do cardio and some weight training as well.
We don't do any more for Chanukah even when it falls on Christmas. For us, it's much more about latkes, applesauce and jelly doughnuts. We've never been able to afford expensive gifts, and the one year that we did spend a lot more money on gifts, we found that it didn't make any difference in everyone's enjoyment of the holiday. If my kids ever felt deprived because their Christmas-celebrating friends got more and/or bigger gifts than they did, they never mentioned it. My kids are much more into Passover; there's no such thing as too much charoset in my house!
I agree with Lynne that Christmas has become much too much of a commercial event. I remember hearing some years ago about "The $100 Christmas," which, as I recall, was a challenge from a Protestant minister to spend no less than $100 on all your Christmas gifts, and see how creative you can be about making things or finding meaning bargains. And when my kids were small, we used to go to the local drugstore (which is now CVS) and play a game; they each got $10 and had to spend as much of it as possible on gifts for the other two kids, without going over. Whoever spent closest to $10 won $1. They had a wonderful time roaming around the whole store, looking for the best things they could get for their siblings. It was great entertainment for DH and me, and the kids had a marvelous time. The best thing about it was the attention they paid to finding something the others would like.
I know people who go deeply into debt every year to buy a lot of Christmas gifts, and I always wonder if the joy they get from giving them is worth the ridiculous credit card bills afterward. But that's their business, and I don't ask. We had times when we were so broke that all we could do was make loaves of banana bread as gifts, and we didn't lose any friendships or damage any family relationships. And right now, one of my kids has no income, so he's making things and looking for small items to give his siblings and us. I did give him money for his birthday, though, so he can use that if he wants. But he'll probably make a load of cookies, mix them up and put them in plastic bags for his brother, sister and their SOs. And I'll bet you anything they will be delighted with them. In fact, I better tell him not to make me any cookies, knowing how I am about them. He can write me a funny poem or something instead. Ah, we'll see! I'm dreaming of latkes already!
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Post by louise on Dec 11, 2016 14:07:06 GMT -5
I was married to a Christian man (I was only "culturally" Jewish back then) and I took to the Christmas tree thing with glee. I'm a little artsy craftsy and merrily stuck sequins into styrofoam balls with straight pins. I also made Christmas tree shaped cakes and decorated them with green sugar, shredded coconut and cherries. What a ball. I only did that for a few years but it was indeed fun. Never got too far out of hand - no idea what would have happened had we had children!
My best friend and I get each other lots of presents but it's kind of a game - most of the presents are small things that we each know the other would enjoy e.g. she collects fine china teacups and I found some tea towels depicting such cups.
For many years now I spend Christmas Eve day working with a woman at a Christian ministry. The goal of the day is to get presents out, mostly to children. The job drops me into the best and the worst of the Christmas spirit. We are bringing gifts to kids who would otherwise have much less and we help take the burden of that off their parents but also puts us square in the face of what does have to do with Christ? I see it as an opportunity to spread the wealth and maybe bring some unexpected delights to a child. It makes me sad at the same though that these gifts, none of which are huge, can make such a big difference. She always has a menorah and this year I just might get to light the first candle at In Jesus Name Ministry!
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Post by happysavta on Dec 11, 2016 16:24:01 GMT -5
I stubbornly stick to the tradition of parents give children Chanukah gelt, not toys, and a bag of chocolate coins. Each of the grandkids gets a check marked "College Fund".
That said, my adult children do prefer to give toys to their children. Given the fact, that these children get a multitude of toys all year long, and I do mean a multitude, I don't see what is so special about getting them another toy for Chankuah.
3 of my children celebrate only Chanukah, but my Catholic daughter in law and my middle son celebrate Christmas and Chanukah in their home. Usually, the main Christmas celebration for her is Christmas eve, in the German tradition, and she gets together with her sisters and their families for Christmas dinner and they go to midnight mass. But this year, I asked her to consider coming to our Chanukah party instead and was surprised when she agreed. My daughter and her family are coming into town from Houston and Dec. 24th is the only date when they will all be in town together during Chanukah. Anyway, all my children and grandchildren will be at our Chanukah party on Christmas Eve and I have some guests coming too.
At our Chanukah party, we sing songs and have a song sheet with the words written out. We have the traditional songs and the funny American parody songs. Music is always a big part of our holiday celebrations. We will play the Sesame Street Chanukah video for the little ones. We also have some Chanukah coloring books and Chanukah games for them, but usually, they just want to play with their new toys. (Sigh) I put up some banners and decorations, which is something I never saw in my parents home, but which has evolved a little bit, and is probably a Christian holiday influence. My rule is not to copy the Christian minhagim, but this one has crept in. No iced blue and white Chanukah cookies, though. Cookies belong to Christmas. Our Chanukah celebration also consists of latkes and playing the dreidel game for pennies.
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Post by happysavta on Dec 11, 2016 17:06:25 GMT -5
Lee was right on the mark when she observed that a lot of people are depressed or frustrated at this time of year. People's expectations are not matched by their reality. How do we prevent ourselves from being depressed or frustrated, chaverot?
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Post by happysavta on Dec 11, 2016 17:29:58 GMT -5
For interfaith couples with small children, December requires a lot of juggling. One of the neighbors on my cul de sac is a young Jewish woman married to a Christian with 2 small children. Their outdoor lighting consists of blue and white rows of flashing Jewish stars. My middle son has a Christmas tree; some of the presents are wrapped in Christmas paper, some are wrapped in Chanukah paper. His wife goes to midnight mass and they light the Chanukah candles every night.
All very nice while the children are pre-schoolers. What do you do when they are 10 or 12 and have the understanding to delve into the meaning of these two holidays? Chanukah celebrates chasing out the non-Jews from the Jewish house of worship and having to cleanse it spiritually and physically from their defiling presence. That sort of clashes with the Christmas belief that a very special human-god child was born to save everyone from death and open the door to an eternal life and the belief that you can reach god only through this special human-god. Yeah, the belief systems aren't complimentary; they clash. So, as Angelika said, there's a lot of confusion. I think most people just mask it with the gift giving and the holiday spirit, but it's there. I feel sorry for the children caught in the middle.
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Post by peachymom1 on Dec 11, 2016 20:25:44 GMT -5
Frieda, you raise an excellent point. I understand that in a mixed marriage, it's important to be respectful to both partners' religious beliefs, but the reality is that Judaism and Christianity are not complementary, as you say, and you can't believe in both and be true to either one. In simpler words, you can't believe in Jesus and not believe in Jesus at the same time. So in a mixed family, I think it's important to explain to children your family values and beliefs, and help them resolve the inevitable conflicts that arise.
This is not easy, though, and from what I've seen, people pretty much sidestep the issue and mask it with the gift giving and holiday spirit, as you say. In recent years, I have found that many young people these days don't consider religion to be a big part of their identity, so maybe it's not an issue to them after all, and maybe they don't feel they have to make a choice. What do you all think? Do you know / have you met many young adults from mixed marriages? What do they say about the Xmas / Chanukah situation?
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Post by peachymom1 on Dec 11, 2016 20:30:14 GMT -5
Frieda, I also wanted to say that your DIL sounds like a lovely person. Midnight Mass is a big deal to Catholics, and it's an especially beautiful and meaningful service, so maybe she can still go after your party. But what a generous thing she is doing by bringing the kids to your celebration -- the children are Christian, after all, and she must think having them spend time with their Jewish extended family is very important. That sounds kind and loving to me.
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Post by hollygail on Dec 11, 2016 22:28:13 GMT -5
Once upon a time, I was married to a non-Jewish man who had a son about two years older than my son. We had an artificial Christmas tree in the living room (with some other decorations around the living room) and a Chanukah menora (plus with other Chanukah decorations that he went out to buy) in the family room. Both boys got Chanukah and Christmas presents. (We also had a Passover seder that I presided over; we also invited his sister and brother-in-law and their kids, and his brother and sister-in-law and her daughter. Everyone participated by reading a paragraph or so going around the table.) It worked for the time we were together.
But I do agree that there has been an over-commercialization of the season. I don't see as much over-spending on Chanukah as I do for Christmas. And in my neighborhood, not many houses are decorated for the season (and the ones that are in my immediate area are rather modestly decorated). I haven't seen Chanukah decorations on houses. We do have one neighbor (Jewish husband, Christian wife, second marriage for each so no kids living with them) who put their chanukiah in the living room window during Chanukah and the Christmas tree (small, maybe 3 or 4 feet tall) also in the living room, so when the two holidays fall separately, you see the Chanukiah, then it's put away, and then days later you see the Christmas tree. Only when the two holidays overlap do you see both. It apparently works for them.
I also know a couple, Jewish husband, Mormon wife. The mom took the daughters to the LDS church and the father took the daughters to synagogue when they were young. The girls decided (each at age 8) to be Jewish, not Mormon, so they were not baptized in the LDS church. The mom brings them to shul and more than fully supported the older girl through bat mitzvah (and apparently is doing the same for the younger daughter who must be about 11 now). I haven't been in their house during December; I can only assume they have a tree and that they light Chanukah candles... But I'm completely unaware if they overspend on gifts and such; I imagine not, but I really don't know.
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Post by louise on Dec 11, 2016 23:41:08 GMT -5
Ironically live in a house that is decked out for Christmas - little white lights wrapped around the railings of the stoop and some other touches - not overdone. At Hanukkah I will add to the decorations with an electric menorah in my window.
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