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Post by hollygail on Dec 20, 2016 23:21:28 GMT -5
What’s on your mind — how to make kugel? This week’s Torah reading? Life goals? Prayer? We are all engaged in weight loss/weight maintenance journeys and we are all Jewish or at least interested in Judaism. We like to eat, we like to discuss. It is our goal here to provide each other support on our journeys, to share experiences, to call on our rich cultural heritage and texts, and to help each other grow spiritually.
Some of us take weekly turns starting the thread:
Angelika
Holly Lee Louise Lynne Peachy |
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Post by hollygail on Dec 20, 2016 23:37:11 GMT -5
Possibly the most famous part of the Chanukah story is about the oil, that one day's worth lasted eight days. There are four or five "ancient" Jewish texts that talk about the Chanukah story, and only one talks about one day's worth of oil that lasted eight days. This one text was written approximately 600 years after the event itself, and in a geographical location relatively far away from where the story itself happened. Many (most?) scholars says the "oil" story was invented during a period the Jews were living under the rule of another country where it was probably dangerous (I'm trying to be "nice") to retell a story in which we overthrew the foreign ruler... and that the holiday was eight days because Sukkot hadn't been permitted to be celebrated for a couple of years (outlawed by the Syrian Greek rulers).
Assuming this information (fictional oil, and non-fictional Sukkot in Kislev) is correct, what can we say about lighting candles for eight days? (We don't for Sukkot...) Yes, it's the darkest time of the year, but these candles are ritual, not practical... Nu? Any ideas?
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Post by happysavta on Dec 21, 2016 0:59:51 GMT -5
Ok, so there probably wasn't a "miracle" of the oil burning for 8 days. I've kind of suspected that for years. Doesn't bother me. Judaism doesn't depend on miracles. I don't think it detracts from the story of Chanukah. There is enough in the story itself about leadership, taking action, rising up against oppression, unity in community, fighting for a cause, staying committed, using military strength and the stubborn adherence to non-assimilation. Works for me.
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lee058
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Post by lee058 on Dec 21, 2016 8:02:00 GMT -5
Good morning everybody. Hope you are all well today. I've always liked the story of the oil burning for 8 days, so I guess I don't care if it's not really feasible (!). I've finally decided on what to get everybody for presents; they're not big, but I think everyone will like them. H is visiting his dad for the holidays, and DS and I picked out several different international snacks which we will individually wrap and put in a gift bag for H to bring with him. I'm going to get my mom a gift card to IHOP because she likes to eat there (even though she always says to not get her anything). DS and I are going to stock up on interesting foods to eat over the holidays, go to the movies, and go out to our favorite restaurant for lunch over the holidays --- and of course, have Chinese food for Christmas! Practically everyone else will be getting cards (I still need to do them). One good thing about Chanukah being eight days is that it doesn't matter if things arrive on the first day.
I'd like to get my mom a red shrug, sweater or cardigan, but so far haven't seen anything I think she'd particularly like online or in the stores. There are a lot to choose from online, so I will probably pick something out that way if I can find something that might fit. The problem is that she is hard to fit; small on top (shoulders and bust) but big in the stomach.
DS and I went to the new Asian supermarket yesterday, and I am going to the World Market store this morning before picking him up from work. This afternoon, the HVAC guy is coming over to take a look at our heat pump. It's working fine, but has been vibrating a lot since the rain/ice we had here a few days ago. Fortunately it's still under warranty!
It's going to be busy the next few days, but then this weekend we can relax! We still don't know if DS will have to work on Saturday, but even if he does, he will probably just have to work in the morning.
I'll be back later if I have time. Have a peaceful day, Lee
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Post by gazelle18 on Dec 21, 2016 9:10:41 GMT -5
I'm about as Jewish as they come, and I don't really care if the oil story is fact or fiction.. Same for the parting of the Red Sea, talking donkeys, and perhaps the biggest of them all: the creation of the world in seven (actually 6) days. This is my tribe, and if we choose to weave a story or two to make a point, well that's ok by me. I have more of a problem with discussing said miracles with folks who do take it all literally. Although I respect their beliefs, it's kind of hard , for me, to have that discussion. On the one hand, I tend to come up with alternative explanations for extraordinary, miraculous events. On the other hand, I have no desire to try to persuade a literal believer that he or she is "wrong." In my life, there is room for both ways of being Jewish.
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Post by savtele on Dec 21, 2016 9:28:14 GMT -5
Boker Tov All! Any story that is 2000 years old is bound to have embellishments. Traditions started for practical reasons in one area are overlaid on the oral traditions of another era/place. Stories that make no sense if you follow the logic to its conclusion, but if you take them at face value, are charming & meaningful.
The story that Hanukkah was extended to 8 days as a replacement for Sukkot always seems odd to me - there is not a culture on earth that doesn't celebrate some sort of harvest festival. It would have been easy to accommodate that. (just my musings) Then again, lighting ritual candles for 8 days, and suspending work for the time the candles are lit, seems a good enough reason for sitting by the fire, putting one's feet up, playing a game or reading a book. If the game lasts longer than the last flame, no problem.
I'll be working today - the antique mall is opening early for a "Thaw Party" - after having to be closed for a few days due to the ice/snow. We're bringing cookies, there will be hot chocolate & tea for the shoppers, & hopefully stressed shoppers will lose their stress to finish the shopping they couldn't do over the last week! Vendors will be in & out all day - I'm going in early. The place is a lot of fun - I enjoy the women I work with - and we've sold all the ornaments off the tree in the middle several times now (I'm getting good at decorating a Christmas tree & at moving a decorated tree to get stuff out from under!) I am most surprised that the (to me) tacky aluminum foil trees from the 50s & 60s just fly out of the store!
For several years now, my great-grandchildren have been getting "National Geographic Kids" & "NG Little Kids" from me for Hanukkah - they love that they get mail every month.
I need more coffee. Have a good day ladies!
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Post by peachymom1 on Dec 21, 2016 11:45:52 GMT -5
Very interesting comments! I personally love that fact that miracles are not a big part of Judaism. The Talmud even says so: "We do not rely on a miracle" (Pesachim 64a-b). For us, the stories are not to be taken as factual or literal; they are fables or allegories to help us learn about life and apply important lessons to our behavior and our characters.
About the candles, of course the story about the oil was made up. Even if we hadn't lived among dangerous cultures who wouldn't exactly appreciate hearing it, it's just not the Jewish way to go around bragging about a military victory. So we tell a nice little story about the oil instead. You can look at things a little differently about that aspect too: who found the oil? Who hid it in the first place? Instead of whooping from the treetops, we rededicated our Temple and focused on the continuation of our identity as Jews. I think that's an important thing to note, and I think it's worth lighting the candles every day of Chanukah.
Something else that occurs to me is that after the first few days of doughnuts, latkes, chocolate gelt and gift-giving, my kids still look forward to lighting the candles each night. And they love (as do I) that we increase the number of candles each night, which seems to add to our enjoyment of them. Over the years, we've had many different kinds of Chanukah menorahs; my kids made some out of washers and marble slabs in Hebrew school, they chose other ones as they got older, and one or two have broken and had to be replaced. But we've always loved lighting the candles together, and it seems to be one action we do as a family that helps bind us together as Jews.
I love Chanukah. I also love Amazon, which allows me to avoid the meshugas of shopping!
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Post by hollygail on Dec 21, 2016 11:52:04 GMT -5
♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
♫♪♫♪ Happy Birthday to you ♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪
♫♪♫♪ Happy Birthday to you ♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪
♫♪♫♪ Happy Birthday, dear Beryl ♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
♫♪♫♪ Happy Birthday to you ♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪
♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
Hope you have a great day!
(from all of us here at Jewish Musings)
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Post by louise on Dec 21, 2016 14:48:34 GMT -5
It was an act of faith to light the light and that's what I think it's all about.
As you may know we have another story about oil lasting in a haftarah that came up not so long ago. A woman comes to the prophet Elisha crying that her husband, who was a righteous man, has died, and his creditors want to take her sons. He asks what she has and she says just a small jar of oil. He tells her that she and her sons should collect all of the vessels they can find, then close the door and start pouring oil into the vessels from the jar she has. Miraculously she is able to fill all of the vessels and at that point the oil in the original jar is depleted. She has enough money from the oil to pay the debts.
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