This Tender Land discussion thread

[fitin14]

Day One
Good  morning and Happy Halloween.  Let's get some preliminary discussion on what you thought of the book? like? dislike? comparison to Ordinary Grace?

I loved the book.  It was one where I didn't guess a couple of plot twists which is the standard to which I judge books at times because I normally guess things lol  
On a sombre note I picked it up to read after here in Canada the remains of Indigenous children were discovered at a residential school and I was sad to learn these types of schools also existed in the US and hence the basis of this book. 

[bernelli]

I absolutely loved this story. I loved it more and more as it went on.

I think I need to read more from this author.... as of now I've only read this one and Ordinary Grace. I think I have two of his books, unread, on my shelves.

Oh, the US was so horrific to the Indigenous people. It's awful and so very very depressing.

I loved that Odie's name ended up being Odysseus. Very clever. I loved all the people they met, and even though I found Emmy's situation to be extremely unbelievable, I ate it up and loved it anyway. I was sure we were going to lose Arthur... this was just an all around great story.

[bumblebuzz21]

I liked this book, but not nearly as much as Ordinary Grace. I didn't love the whole can change the future with a seizure and then the fact that the headmistress knew who everyone was from the beginning kind of jumped the shark for me.

[sal]

Not finished yet. I'll be back in later in the week when I've had a chance to get there (hopefully by Wednesday at latest). I have gotten to the point where they are on the run, but just have had limited reading time over the weekend.

[honeybzzzs]

I almost didn’t read this because I thought it was going to be a deep dive into the Indigenous Peoples scandal that was uncovered in the US and Canada recently.

That being said, I did enjoy this book and that it took a different turn then I expected.

[Deleted]

I’m guilty of believing this was a sequel to Ordinary Grace and was disappointed when (audio book) I started hearing about Odie O’Banion. I turned off the book and stopped my walk to look up exactly what I was going to be reading. I fell in love with this cast of characters right from the start. But, I didn’t think the author’s writing or the storyline was as great as OG.

I loved the introductory chapters of the book. The story at the school and the Black Witch really drew me in. Unlike, fitin14, I felt the plot twists were too predictable. Like, Mrs. Frost dying in the tornado. I just knew that was coming. I kept thinking, “If this kid ever finds his aunt, she’ll turn out to be his mom”.

There were also points where I thought the story just fell apart. Like the two “fivers” in Odie’s boot. I expected a grander event and more altruistic story line when he used them,based on how often they came up in the story as foreshadowing. And, One Eyed Jack shows up in the post office, miles from his home and has no ill regard for the the fact that Odie shot him an inch from his heart?

I got bogged down in the middle around Brother Loves Travelin‘ Salvation Show(Neil Diamond ear worm). I had to push myself to keep reading. I’m glad I did. I was in love with the characters but their story, about the revival, didn’t engage me. I reengaged again when they reached the flatlands. (I could read a sequel about Mose or the Flatland people). I was disappointed in Sister Eve. Although, I’m sure there’s a lot of truth there, I just got upset when she kept listening to that slick boyfriend of hers. And, she didn’t really protect Odie. It was just easy to put the book down then.

I had to suspend belief a couple times, too. ( bumblebuzz21 ) Like seizures changing events. And the whole connection of the Black Witch and Aunt Julia. The ending seemed rushed. Like he just wanted to put a ribbon on it. “Prostitute turns seamstress. Converts fudge shop into dress shop and becomes a great success by blackmailing all her prominent sex customers”

All that said, I did like the book and loved the characters.

[Deleted]

I thought this was interesting. From an interview with the author:

This Tender Land is your second attempt at a companion novel to your 2013 knockout bestseller Ordinary Grace. Can you explain what happened and what you learned from that initial setback?


Ordinary Grace received a terrific reception from critics and readers alike. It won tonnes of awards, has been translated into a couple of dozen foreign languages, and has sold upward of a million copies. When my publisher saw this, they were eager to have another book of a similar ilk. I signed a contract, received a substantial advance, and spent the next two years writing what I believed would be a companion novel. But the manuscript I produced was such a disappointment to me, that I simply couldn’t deliver it to my publisher.
Here’s what was going on. The expectations for that follow-up novel were enormous, and while I was writing the story, I felt crushed by the weight of all those expectations. And really what I was doing was trying to meet everyone else’s expectations instead of writing the story that spoke to me from my heart. But when I made the decision not to deliver the manuscript, a huge weight lifted from my shoulders and I felt free again. That’s when I saw clearly the story I should have been writing, the story that spoke to me from my heart. And that story became This Tender Land.
There are so many voices out there telling writers what they should write, what’s hot, what’s selling, what will be the next big thing. The lesson I learned from my experience is this: The only voice writers should listen to is the one that speaks to them from their own hearts.

[juliajones54]

I read This Tender Land in July 2021 and gave it 4 stars on Goodreads. Same number I gave to Ordinary Grace from May 2021. In my opinion, Ordinary Grace will always be Kreuger's best novel and no wonder that he has not written the next one to best it yet, but I do love his writing.

After we read OG for bookclub here, I read several of his other books. I just love his words, his style and the deep subjects he chooses. He writes with such compassion. Underneath the pain, he is this solid, caring voice holding the characters together until they find their destiny. He seems to ask readers to think about God and suffering - and to consider if God even does exist in this world of ours.

To me, his books are allegorical, almost mythical. Could these 4 kids really have experienced and survived all they dealt with? While reading This Tender Land I felt shades of Tom Sawyer & Huckleberry Finn, The Oddyessy, David Copperfield, and Joseph Campbell's The Hero with a Thousand Faces. This Tender Land also reads like YA to me and I would love for my teenage grandkids to read it.

I didn't reread the book and should have but I'll follow the discussion and chime in where I can.

[fitin14]

DAY TWO:


The book has spirituality as one of its main themes.  There is talk of God, and of faith healing as well as spirituality of the native people.  Let's discuss the theme and what we thought about it. 

[Deleted]

I was not opposed to the spiritually in the book. But, I just didn’t like the story that was written around it. I didm’t like Sister Eve or her slimy boyfriend. I found it perfectly believable that the traveling church was corrupt. I think that was probably true of many of those groups, especially during the depression when people were hungry for help and something to believe in. I was intrigued by Mose’s spiritual background and was happy that he relied on it, especially given his circumstances and his time at that awful school.

I did some other research. I can’t remember if it was in the book (epilogue maybe?) or somewhere else where I read the stated purpose for the schools was to “kill the Indian, save the man”. So awful.

I think, when telling a coming of age story, spiritually belongs there. It’s something we all struggle with. Do we believe or no? I though Odie’s struggle with the Tornado God was a great way to convey Odie’s internal struggle with the whole matter.

Faith healing? I’m not convinced. It’s one of those things that is so easily faked.

The part about Emy’s seizures and them impacting life, that went too far and factored into my thinking the book had some weaknesses.

[bumblebuzz21]

I agree with @fairazzbueller, that the story was not written around spirituality.
I feel like there was just enough spirituality with the whole Tornado God thing. I still don't believe Sister Eve actually healed anyone, so I guess I didn't that that part seriously.

[fitin14]

The spirituality I could believe in the most was the native one where Mose learned about the masacre and then went into the state that he did as a result of it. 

[bernelli]

I saw the question of God and does Odie believe, does Arthur believe, what does Mose believe. That was introduced early... and most people do come to points in their lives where they question and consider where they stand. But the traveling faith healing stuff had me thinking "oh here we go". That IS so easy to fake, as @fairazzbueller stated. Sister Eve claimed that God did the healing, and sometimes the healing wasn't possible (like with dead people) she was a a hope-dealer.... disguised as a money collector... so this rolled around in my brain over and over...I liked this option of looking at a faith healer from different perspectives. I felt she WAS taking advantage of people using faith & God but she was wearing just enough blinders to make it ok in her mind to continue doing it...because if some people came away with hope, then that justified her actions.

Faith is really important to me... so I was hopeful that Odie would "find God" and the comfort & hope that comes with that (for me) .. but that's a personal discovery for everyone, even fictitious characters. I think that everyone has an "odyssey" their lives take them on and they have to find where their hope will come from and what they'll put their faith in.

I really found the different thoughts about faith, God, beliefs to be very interesting in this story. And very painful.

[Deleted]

When y’all are saying Arthur…are you meaning Albert? I don’t remember an Arthur.

[fitin14]

Day 3

Do you think This Tender Land represented the Great Depression times accurately? In terms of the children riding down the river with no adult present,  getting food and sleeping outdoors, encountering other adults etc. I did find I had to suspend disbelief to an extent. It wasn't like some other Depression era novels I had read in that regard in that it seemed much more of an adventure than being true to the devastation of the Depression. That may be my own opinion of course! It did feel true to the 'Mark Twain' reference that I know the author had in mind.

[bumblebuzz21]

I believed it. I haven't read a ton of great depression stuff, but I definitely think that was the only time adults would willingly let children head out on their own. There were just too many mouths to feed unfortunately.

[Deleted]

I think the author showed a pretty accurate picture of “what he chose to include”. Which was mainly how the Depression impacted children. Particularly, orphans.

I think he did an outstanding job of bringing the isolation and displacement to the forefront. Many families sent some or all of their children to live with others where they hoped for a better life. Orphans were left to fend for themselves, frequently, Children had to get jobs just to help feed the family. The lack of necessities, in the story, was difficult to read. I was so grateful when the Red Wing lady helped them get decent shoes.

I think the author didn’t place too much emphasis on the Depression, as a whole, because it might have derailed the story. It was more a mention of how minor characters were impacted than a flushed out full description .

I would recommend, if anyone likes this era reading, The Four Winds by Kristen Hannah. This is the story of a family trying to survive during the Depression and Dust Bowl. It weaves a cyclical story of how, this family needs help, receives govt help, help is derailed by fraud, needs help….rinse repeat. I finished this audio book while on a fitness walk. I was sobbing through the neighborhood. It’s my second favorite book by Kristin Hannah. First is The Nightingale (different time period).

Here’s a pic of my mom during the Depression, in Southern Indiana. She’s the little one. About 7years old. Doesn’t that face say everything?

[bernelli]

I believed the depression era stuff. The tents and the shantytowns were described, I thought, in pretty good detail.
There was one point where I was reading that I thought, "this sounds like devastation, but Odie doesn't view it that way". <-- So then I decided that we're seeing so much from Odie's eyes, and he's very young and naïve so maybe the reality of the depression was softened by his youth, and the fact that he's not worried about his own children starving to death in front of his eyes. I cannot imagine that reality...it would be terrible... but kids don't always recognize those things so maybe the devastation of the era was softened a little bit that way?

As for the kids being allowed to just go it alone, I think that was more accepted back then...now I'd look at a kid and worry they'd be kidnapped and hurt... I think we had a lot more freedom (exposure to danger?) when I was younger, even more when my parents were young... so I read it that way. Lots of people did ask the boys, "where are you parents", and then when they said they're dead the people looked away and ended the conversation. That could be another way that they got away with being on their own.

[honeybzzzs]

I liked how the Great Depression was more of a background scene to the story.

At the start of the book I viewed it as a Huck Finn type of story. As the book moved along I saw that they were in the Great Depression Era. Everything that was mentioned rang true to me. I’ve read books on that era, as well as heard stories from my Mom about how poor they were. It was a tough time for people.
I liked how the author was just matter-of-fact on the way life was in those years.

[fitin14]

Day 4:

Who was taken by surprise about Aunt Julia? or did you guess? I was one who did not guess and was really not expecting that.  Do you think this storyline was realistic given the times? 

[Deleted]

I definitely guessed she would be Odie’s mother. And, based on the money she sent to the school, I assumed her life had somehow been troubled. I did not guess she was a prostitute until Odie arrived and she hid him upstairs so her “guests” didn’t see him.

I think prostitution was alive during the depression. And, frankly, maybe a better life than most women had. Cash, baths, roof over their head, beds, …

[bernelli]

I did not see it coming that Aunt Julia was Odie's mother.
I did believe Odie & Albert weren't brothers but didn't have that worked out.
Also, I didn't understand that it was a brothel that Aunt Julia lived in until she took him to the attic and he met the other girl.

It all made sense to me and seemed to fit to me (I wasn't in the questioning frame of mind as I was reading this..I just was along for the ride and accepted it all). I do think the women who ran the "higher end" brothels had a better life than many other women.

Side note: a couple years ago my daughter and I went on a road trip and one of our stops was San Antonio. Somewhere along the way I learned that "levels" of brothels were very prevalent "back in the day". And the women with the higher prices and the smaller clientele actually were very well off (financially). The entire city was mapped out with the location of the brothels and where they were. It was eye opening and really interesting.

[bumblebuzz21]

I didn't guess any of it, but found it be plausible. Took me a sec to catch on to the whole brothel thing too. I was too busy worrying about someone dying or something terrible happening (I mean bad stuff did happen, I was just waiting for other shoe to drop).

[fitin14]

Day 5

Since we have come to the end of the week, let's talk about the ending. Did you like how things wrapped up? Also who would you cast in a movie of the book?

[bumblebuzz21]

I was kind of annoyed by like the last 1/4 of the book, but I did think the ending wrapped everything up nicely. I'm terrible at casting, so I'm sitting that part out