Jewish Musings, Friday/Shabbat, March 22-23, 2024

[peachymom1]

What’s on your mind — how to make kugel? This week’s Torah reading? Life goals? Prayer? We are all engaged in weight loss/weight maintenance journeys and we are all Jewish or at least interested in Judaism. We like to eat, we like to discuss. It is our goal here to provide each other support on our journeys, to share experiences, to call on our rich cultural heritage and texts, and to help each other grow spiritually.

Some of us take weekly turns starting the thread:

Frieda (hopefully)?
Holly
Lee
Louise
Lynne
Peachy

And for those of you that stop by to read this thread without posting — you are welcome to, but you are also welcome to chime in. Don’t be shy!

[peachymom1]

Good morning! Tomorrow night is Purim, a holiday of great fun and merry-making, when we read the entire book of Esther and make as much noise as we can to drown out the name of the villain, Haman (boo!).

Before Esther can become queen, apparently the author of the story had to get rid of the former queen, Vashti (though I’ve always thought this was rather silly, since kings in ancient times were known to have multiple wives, but whatever). Vashti is banished from the kingdom for defying the command of King Achashverosh and not parading her beauty/body in front of his friends. And why does Queen Vashti have to be put “in her place?” According to the text,

“Queen Vashti has committed an offense not only against Your Majesty but also against all the officials and against all the peoples in all the provinces of King Ahasuerus. For the queen’s behavior will make all wives despise their husbands, as they reflect that King Ahasuerus himself ordered Queen Vashti to be brought before him, but she would not come. This very day the ladies of Persia and Media, who have heard of the queen’s behavior, will cite it to all Your Majesty’s officials, and there will be no end of scorn and provocation!” (Esther 1:16-18)

The punishment of banishment is so that “all wives will treat their husbands with respect, high and low alike” (verse 20).

I have some questions about this:

1. Do you think this is an accurate assessment? That is, do you think that (a) Vashti’s behavior was so terrible; and/or that (b) the wives of the kingdom would actually follow her example and pluck up and start disobeying their husbands?
2. Why did Vashti refuse to appear? Surely she knew the consequences of disobeying the king. Maybe she didn’t correctly hear or understand the message from the king? Maybe she was exhausted from hosting the concurrent banquet for women (Esther 1:9)? Maybe the messengers misunderstood her response? Maybe the messengers lied about her response?
3. Couldn’t the King (or any of his advisors) have thought of a different way to handle the situation? Maybe the King could have verified Vashti’s response? Maybe he could have shown up at her chambers and asked for an explanation instead of jumping to conclusions? Yes, he was drunk and angry, but if he took the time to consult with his advisors about the law and proper procedures, he could have taken the time to investigate more fully in the first place.

What are your comments / ideas / thoughts about Vashti?

Shabbat shalom and Purim sameach!

[hollygail]

I have lots to say about Vashti!
1. The text says that the guests at the king's party FOR THE MEN of Shushan were to have as much to drink as they wanted. And it says that they advised him to invite Vashti "wearing her crown." What else was she supposed to wear? NOTHING?!?!?!?!?!? When I talk with my 6th and 7th graders, I ask them what else she was supposed to wear? Her royal robes? is one answer I've gotten. I say something like, "okay." And keep asking for any other answers. Inevitably, one student becomes embarrassed to say what's on his/her/their mind and I encourage said student to say it aloud... Eventually, the student offers, "Naked?" and I say that's what scholars have been asking for a coupla thousand years. Tell me: if you were invited to attend a party where you know there are only men, no women, and the men have been drinking alcohol for seven days straight, would you go? Not one student says yes; someone brings up the "dangerous" aspect. I reinforce their thinking by agreeing with them and the conversation/discussion continues from there. Of course Vashti knows the men have been drinking for a whole week. No one in her right mind would agree to dance naked in a room of drunken men.

1 (b) As for other women in the land: Possibly some might say "if the Queen can get away with not obeying her husband when he asks her to do something odious, perhaps I can too." But "make my dinner, woman!" isn't in that category...

2. Why did she refuse? For the same reasons my 11 and 12 and 13 year old students would: DANGEROUS situations are best avoided.

3. First I'd like to point out that banishing Vashti is a better idea than killing her outright. They could have found her guilty of disobeying the king, the punishment for which could easily be capital punishment. Did they let her live because of her pedigree? (Chances are pretty good that if she was wife to a king, her family may very well have had enormous influence of their own. Throughout "modern" history, royalty has been marrying royalty. I'm old enough to remember when then Prince Charles was supposed to marry; everyone apparently knew he was dating his current wife, yet she was "off limits" because she was a divorcee. I remember the photos of a young Prince Charles and those of Diana before she married him. You probably do too, and if you were too young at the time, you've seen those pictures later in your life. So maybe Vashti was related to kings in other lands, and killing her would have had terrible repercussions. No, it wouldn't have been politically correct to kill her, so they banished her.

And no, the king himself was drunk and not thinking for himself so he couldn't have gone to her quarters to verify or determine what was going on inside her head. He went along with the crowd, about inviting her in the first place, about punishing her, about how to obtain a new queen, and later in the story (as we all know) about letting Haman have his way about an edict that all the citizenry would have liberty on a specific day to kill their Jewish neighbors. He didn't think for himself.

For many years, I dressed as Vashti for Purim parties. And I was always proud to dress as Vashti. And I was proud that it caught on with other people too!

Chag Purim sameach, friends. And gut shabbes / shabbat shalom!

[gazelle18]

Personally I think the King contrived a reason to get rid of Vashti so he could move on to a trophy wife. When you WANT someone to defy you, you make up an outrageous demand (e.g., appear naked in front of a bunch of drunk entitled men,) which you know that person will refuse.

Peachy thanks for a great week! Good shabbos and Happy Purim !

[lee058]

Good morning everybody. Hope you are all well and SAFE! Please pray for Israel.

Re today's topic: I agree with all that has been said above.

Thanks Peachy for a good week!!

Everyone have a peaceful day, Lee