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Post by moosishun on Aug 7, 2017 8:09:54 GMT -5
Hey!
I have a few questions about this book to get started, but you are free to take this into a whole 'nuther tangent if you would like. For the sake of discussion and seeing if we will have some pretty neat dialogue, I have given you two areas to think about today. Answer one or two (or none - ha!) and I hope to see you around this week!
Anyhow, FIRST DAY:
1. What did you think of this book? If you were to compare this to other non-fiction, say Bugliosi (The true crime one) or Larsen (Lusitania), how would Puleo stack up?
2. What historical "layers" that were presented to the reader were most interesting to you? What new thing did you learn? .
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Post by bumblebuzz21 on Aug 7, 2017 8:39:17 GMT -5
I think this book was fine. He was way less verbose than Bugliosi and I didn't read Lusitania. I learned all kinds of stuff, but history isn't really my thing so it isn't hard for me to learn new stuff.
My tangent- I have this weird rule that I don't even read the dust covers of books, because I don't want to ruin the story. So,even though the word Boston is in the title, I was under the impression that this book was about a flood of molasses that came from trees (see, I really don't know anythng!) up in Vermont. Like a maple syrup flood. Are there any books about that?
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Post by bernelli on Aug 7, 2017 8:40:52 GMT -5
I stayed up late last night to finish this and be ready for our conversation!
1. I found the molasses tank story so interesting. I found reading this book to be so boring. It was like wading through molasses to get finished with this thing. It was just like eating dry pancakes or something, especially the trial coverage.
2. The most interesting bits were the people, their lives and what they were doing when, during and after the disaster. Not that I was happy to read about their awful pain/loss, but that was the part that read easier to me. I also did find it interesting to know the backstory of the characters, and thought Puleo later pulled together interesting actions that those characters opted to take.
...just really a boring snoozer of a read... but I'm glad to know the story. Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate it, and am happy to know the information now! I may have put this book down were it not for this conversation though.
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Post by OwlGreen68 on Aug 7, 2017 8:45:16 GMT -5
I haven't finished yet but I am enjoying the book. It's way better than Bugliosi's And the Sea Will Tell (although I liked Helter Skelter). I think the material is somewhat dry at times because he was the only one to dig into this event.
I found his explanation of the molasses-rum-slave trading triangle, and the fact that New England had such a large role in slaving, enlightening.
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Post by OwlGreen68 on Aug 7, 2017 8:52:58 GMT -5
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Post by moosishun on Aug 7, 2017 8:55:46 GMT -5
I did like this book and I thought it was kind of a slog through it. It is amazing to me the part that Big Business can play in the safety of people and how they wheedle around that very thing if there are poor people involved and money to be made. And the fact that they had to hurry to get in on the money to be made in a very short period of time. Sometimes I wonder if wars are festered by these big corporations because they see a huge profit to be recognized in a very short time. (I am being very cynical right now)
Also, the animosity towards different "people groups". It makes me sad that we just can't seem to learn from past mistakes on how to treat people. Did you see that one sentence that said Italian-Americans were lynched more often than any one else except African-Americans?
I think the actual onslaught of the flood took minutes. I think Puleo did a very good job in that he didn't treat this thing like a "Movie Based on True Events". There were enough interesting factors to pull into this thing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 9:03:28 GMT -5
This was a fairazzbueller pick. But, man was it slow! I kept thinking, in the beginning,"Is this thing ever gonna blow?"
I ,also, found the slave trade info interesting. Like Bernelli, I am glad to know the story but it could have been told in half the time. I was amazed about the guy whose hair turned white while waiting to be saved.
I loved the historical reference to the Lusitania since we read Dead Wake.
I forget the other questions.
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Post by moosishun on Aug 7, 2017 9:19:10 GMT -5
The business of not checking out that big monstrosity was so unforgivable. Painting the thing the color of the molasses was also slimy-acting.
This reminds me of when I worked in the summertime for EPA. I worked in the office that passed the Toxic Substances Control Act. The director and other scientists would go out on "field trips" to see how various chemical companies were handling their stuff. At one place, there were leaks here and there and the manager just put his finger in the leak and said "See, easy to fix, just need a plug here." My office was the office that was contacted about all those cows that died due to poisonous feed due to unsafe conditions at the place that was selling the feed. At that time, the Act was not passed yet and the frustration in that TV movie were very real.
EPA really is fighting for its life right now.
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Post by mcmoff on Aug 7, 2017 9:20:02 GMT -5
I finished the book a week ago - plowed through most of it over a weekend.
I thought the story was interesting - the back-drop of the slave trade and the way the new immigrants were acclimated into US society was interesting, but it read like a text-book, seemed like a master theses to me. I would have never read it except for this.
I found most of the back-drop stories interesting - the slave trade triangle and the way the new immigrants were acclimated into US society was interesting. And I had no idea you used molasses to make bombs, after it was made into alcohol. And the result was more building inspections - now I know who to blame when fighting the city over a remodel! But I guess I should thank them for looking out for us all.
If I ever get to Boston - I'll go to that area know more than the normal person I guess!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 9:20:30 GMT -5
The idea of the trees letting their syrup flow Willy nilly into a flood reminds me of Blazing Saddles. "Somebody's gotta go back and get a shitload of buckets."
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Post by moosishun on Aug 7, 2017 9:32:11 GMT -5
The uses for molasses were astounding to me. I have always hated molasses as a sweetener, but then we probably did not buy the best type. I imagine it does a brisk business up in Amish country. Doesn't shoo-fly pie require molasses?
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Post by OwlGreen68 on Aug 7, 2017 10:04:05 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 10:12:31 GMT -5
Cookies.I leave out the espresso. I hate coffee.
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Cyn
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Post by Cyn on Aug 7, 2017 10:16:21 GMT -5
Hi. Reporting in, but way behind as I got a head cold Sat which included a dull headache, so reading (and even most sickbed tv) was not an option. I'm still resting today, but the headache seems to have subsided a bit so will try to get back to the book this afternoon. Sorry!
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Post by moosishun on Aug 7, 2017 10:22:27 GMT -5
I think the Lusitania book stayed mainly on course (ha!) with what was going on with and on the ship itself. Plus, there were lots of characters to play with. The Bugliosi book had more of a drama between the main 4 characters - probably more written-down and oral testimonies of interactions, so that played out as more of a "story". I imagine this book had much less going for it because the people themselves were for the most part, less well-off (less written down stuff left behind) and the oral histories did not travel down through the years. It would be interesting to have heard from ancestors of the people affected the most in the Molasses Flood.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 10:30:47 GMT -5
Right at the onset, I questioned the story about the guy who kept running to check on the tank. Do you think he really did that?
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Post by crewer on Aug 7, 2017 12:07:00 GMT -5
I finished the book last week after skimming alot of the personal detail stuff. Very interesting story about a very weird incident. I liked learning abut how important molasses was to Boston from very early days and how it was tied into slavery. I also liked learning how USIA was trying to sell as much alcohol as possible in the 1 year window after the prohibition amendment passed, how big a deal the anarchists were, and how the "prosecuting attorney" went after Jell. But the details about the people were too much for me - alot worse than in the Lusitania book (Dead Wake) maybe because most of the details seemed so inconsequential. Yeah, I also wondered if that employee (Gonzales was it?) really slept by the tank.
I missed the afterward. Will read it tonight. Thanks!
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MonkeyTwirl
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Post by MonkeyTwirl on Aug 7, 2017 15:46:05 GMT -5
It was boring and went off on completely unrelated also boring tangents about Italian communists or labor organizers or whatever. I speed skim listened it so long ago that I can't even remember.
The interesting parts of the book could have been condensed onto a magazine article.
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Post by balancedlife on Aug 7, 2017 19:46:13 GMT -5
I did like this book a lot. Maybe because I know so little about history and, like the other books we have read, including even (avert your eyes in case of the next word being a trigger) Rats, I learned some really interesting information. Having Stevie giving me all that historical context was fascinating to me.
The afterword really does point out how limited his original resource material was and how diligently he pursued every jot and tittle he could find. I think that is why I was transfixed when it came to the trial sections. That information came from the transcripts and therefore had the ring of sworn truth to me. And it was so revealing about Hall's approach to the case. Loved that section sooooo much!
I will say that the book reminds me that there is no expiration date on greed. What happened then is terrifying similar to some of the horrors that are happening now.
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Post by honeybzzzs on Aug 7, 2017 21:15:25 GMT -5
balancedlife took the words right out of my mouth and said them even better then I could. Thanks Balanced. I did enjoy this book. I didn't find it slow or boring. It was an interesting piece of history that I knew nothing about.
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Post by moosishun on Aug 7, 2017 21:19:32 GMT -5
I just felt that the material was worthy to be read, but Stephen P. does not have an exciting way of writing.
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Post by peacemama on Aug 7, 2017 22:47:36 GMT -5
If this was assigned reading for an American History class, I probably would have enjoyed it. But for a summer reading selection it held little appeal.
I lived in the Boston area after college, but I don't recall ever hearing this bit of history on any of my tours through the city.
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Post by ccToast on Aug 8, 2017 7:15:14 GMT -5
I didn't read this selection, but I'm poking my nose in here to get a summary from all of you who slogged through it! It is amazing to me the part that Big Business can play in the safety of people and how they wheedle around that very thing if there are poor people involved and money to be made. Spoiler alert (not really): Business greed is a villain in The Radium Girls too.
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Post by mary~m on Aug 8, 2017 8:19:30 GMT -5
I'm a day late, but I did finish the book!
I ended up really enjoying Dark Tide. I grew up on the south shore of Boston, and had never even heard of this event. The story was compelling to me, and I wasn't put off by the somewhat simple, straightforward narrative.
It made me think a lot about how hard it is to be the lone voice of reason, and how easy it is to ignore someone raising an early warning about an impending disaster.
As an aside, my brother bought a house in Cohasset, MA, right on the water. Their is a stone stairway down to the rocks and a small dock, and the story goes that the Kennedy's ran booze there during prohibition.
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Post by moosishun on Aug 8, 2017 8:27:19 GMT -5
DAY TWO: (thanks to Fairazz for question 1)
1. How about Arthur Jell? What do you think of him? His management of this project? Is this a case of Peter Principle exemplified? Why do you think he was not held culpable at all?
2. Any other individuals that raised your ire?
3. Which individuals got your most sympathy?
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