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Post by bernelli on Aug 8, 2017 8:54:44 GMT -5
1. I dislike Arthur Jell with a passion. He is a lazy, shallow, self absorbed idiot. He didn't manage the project well, he cut corners only keeping his personal gain in mind. .....Unfortunately I skimmed the legal part of the story so much that I don't even remember Peter Principle.
2. The guy who blasted the city-dwellers for accepting the poor management of their city really ticked me off too. People do need to stand up and have a voice, vote, get involved.... but there is only so much power their collective voice can have when the power balance was so out of whack as it was back then (and maybe this is a common and ongoing issue).
3. I do understand, though, how people assume the city is looking out for their safety and so they "just keep on going". My sympathy goes mostly out to the people who worried about the tank, and told Jell about their concerns. My sympathy goes out to the people who were injured and lived in pain. My sympathy goes out to the families who had to watch their loved ones suffer, and for those who grieved the loss of their family members. I also felt really sorry for the people who had to clean up that sticky mess.
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Post by moosishun on Aug 8, 2017 9:07:26 GMT -5
Arthur Jell was probably a fine upstanding citizen who never committed a crime, kept his lawn cut, walked the dog every morning, had a nice loving wife and children, and had no sense of ethics. The company was probably led by such people who had not one clue about how to build something responsibly and would leave all of that to an accountant who probably never pushed anything heavier than a pencil. I think this is the reason Jell would not have been personally liable. He was in way over his head and could have pled ignorance quite honestly except for the fact that he was smart enough to paint that stupid tower the color of molasses.
I wish to heck all those people who were concerned about the tower's leakings could have gotten together and taken this above Jell. However, this kind of organization was probably not possible and takes a lot of work even today. I think I am maddest at the cultural thoughts back then that put people into "clans" who would never have talked to each other. Even if they had, they would have been suspect because Big Business had ultimate power and these were poorer people, who had no say except to say "Hey, thanks, for the working opportunities!"
Out of all the sad stories, I really felt for the fellow who owned the bar and was about to move his family out of that house - he lost just about everything, his mom was killed and his brother (probably on the autistic spectrum) was never the same and became so violent that he had to eventually be put in a home away from his family. I can't even imagine the journey that young man had to go through.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 9:10:07 GMT -5
Arthur Jell….ugh!
I think it was partly Peter Principle. He was a numbers guy that they pushed this project on. He did rise to his level of incompetence. Additionally, he seemed to be satisfied to line the pockets of management. Whether it was his idea, or someone else’s to paint that tank, it was just so so wrong. He didn’t have any safety standards to rely on but, at the same time, he didn’t even search anyone out who could have calculated the necessary thickness of the tank walls. The company knew children were collecting molasses. They even ran them off, but they did nothing to protect anyone. Jell could hear that tank moaning and groaning from the stress of the content. And, still did nothing. All for greed!
And, then to blame it on the anarchists to try to hide your fault. Ugh. I just wanted to bitchslap him.
Sympathetic characters were, of course, the innocent children. Just trying to get a molasses fix. And, the immigrants , in general. This tank was built where it was built because they were undervalued.
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Post by moosishun on Aug 8, 2017 9:23:34 GMT -5
Jell was definitely unfit for that task.
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Post by bumblebuzz21 on Aug 8, 2017 9:44:36 GMT -5
I just can't fathom building a structure that you literally have no clue about. And he was so forthcoming about the fact that he didn't ever have an engineer or anything look at the plans. I expected him to try and lie his way out, but it was like he had no clue that it was a problem. So weird.
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Post by mary~m on Aug 8, 2017 10:04:16 GMT -5
I probably have a view of Arthur Jell that is somewhat influenced by having spent a long time as a project manager. It's one thing not to have adequate technical knowledge when you run a project, but you need to seek that knowledge in others in order to do your job. Jell displayed a pretty appalling lack of curiosity about the technical aspects of his project. And a tremendous amount of hubris. I definitely agree that his painting of the tower was pretty damning.
My sympathies definitely went with the victims, and their loved ones. I can't even imagine what it was like to be trapped in that flood, and the amount of suffering that the victims went through. And imagine your kids going out to play and that flood engulfing them...it's horrifying.
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Post by moosishun on Aug 8, 2017 10:18:21 GMT -5
I wonder what the workers thought as they were building the tower. Some would not know any better but you know that some were shaking their heads throughout all the shady and hasty construction.
I agree that Jell was such an ignorant haughty ass that he did not realize that what he said showed him to be the most culpable of criminals that should have been shown the prison door.
I am most irate at USIA, who not only did not fire him but promoted him.
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Post by mcmoff on Aug 8, 2017 10:26:10 GMT -5
At first I had mixed emotions for Jell - I too am an accountant so I was imaging me being put in charge of building that tank. I hope I would have done better, but I don't think he got any support from his bosses and they just wanted it built at no cost and done now! Jell was in over his head being put in charge of this project, but his main goal was to get that promotion to their NY HQ, so he faked it - badly. He didn't ask for help, although that probably wasn't encouraged by his supervisors. And when it was pointed out that the tank was leaking his solution was to paint it the color of the molasses? OMG - that move was the one that moved my opinion of him to the disgusted end of the spectrum.
The lawyer for the company also raised my ire. I don't understand how any lawyer can defend people, or corporations that are so wrong. I know it's part of the legal system & all, but some actions are defenseless - IMO.
I felt sorry for all the victims that were in the molasses - basically they were crushed either to death, or so badly that they never were without pain from that day forward. And that poor dude whose lost his Mom, home, and then finally his brother, Awful. And the brother, who was haunted into insanity - he was never able to understand what happened, and lived in terror for the next year of his life - so sad for them all.
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Post by peacemama on Aug 8, 2017 11:41:02 GMT -5
Drat! I didn't notice the Afterword after the Index. Thought I was done, but I still have 7 pages of reading to go. The letter looks interesting, so hope it's worth 10 minutes of my time today.
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Post by peacemama on Aug 8, 2017 11:51:05 GMT -5
Jell was definitely unfit for that task. This comment made me immediately think "like our current prez." Hope there's a question in the days ahead regarding the presidents who were mentioned in this book. I found the turn of the century politics fascinating.
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Post by balancedlife on Aug 8, 2017 12:32:57 GMT -5
ETA: Well, brace yourselves, my book-loving friends because I obviously am going all rogue-bloggity here!
Excellent questions, Moosi + Fair!
1. Jell is probably burning in hell, even as I type. But so should the president and vice president of the company! The people who demanded that everything go their way so that profits would be huge walked/walk away with their dirty, dirty little hands. Jell was a fool who was in waaaaay over his head, but the company set it up.
2. How I wish that White had listened to Gonzales! Why doesn't management understand that the "little" people who are right down there on the line actually have the best idea of what is actually happening!?!
3. My heart went out to all who suffered and died and to their families. I cannot imagine the terror and pain.
4. Poor people getting the short end of the stick. Damn, I am so very, very sick of victims being ignored and/or blamed! Although it was government rather than Big Business, I am reminded of the way that the citizens of Flint, MI, have been treated. A. Not participating in politics and standing up for themselves. Well, working your asses off just to keep the family fed and sheltered makes it really hard to find the time and energy to do much of anything else. And with little options to control the size of families, the situation just gets more and more difficult.
B. Being "clannish." If you are despised and ridiculed, no surprise that you turn to those who share and understand your situation.
C. Living in a less than desirable area. What choice do you have when that is all you can afford? Being poor does not mean you are disposable.
I acknowledge that we have made progress in protecting citizens from some of the horrors of greedy corporations, but I still worry.
1. Whenever someone like Shkreli can take over a company and raise the cost of a pill by 5,000%.
2. The more digging that is done into the Wells Fargo garbage, the more stuff keeps showing up. The idea of charging people to carry insurance when they already had it seems to be the latest on them.
3. VW trying to get away with messing around with the emission controls on their vehicles.
The fact these devils have been found out and punished (be it ever so mildly) gives me some hope. But I fear that there are others still operating under the radar and getting away with despicable behavior in the name of the almighty dollar. Huh. I guess that one of the reasons I liked this book was that it reminded me to think about today's issues and not back down from the fight for all of us. I gotta go throw some more money at principled people who are running for office!
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Post by crewer on Aug 8, 2017 14:10:44 GMT -5
Jell was a good fall guy since he deserved it but the company was really at fault. Surely these days you'd need inspections and other things to get the tank built.
Things were tough for laborers and poor people. No wonder there are more regulations today and thank goodness for it. (Just remember how many laborers died in the 20s building Hoover and Grand Coulee dams, and my dad told stories he'd heard from his uncles about deaths of steel workers - very horrible- during the 20s and depression, etc.) Then again, for awhile there in the 90s and early 2000s, BP was having repeated refinery problems causing injuries and death) and that's before Deepwater Horizon. So maybe things still aren't that great for the mass workers.
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Post by balancedlife on Aug 8, 2017 14:35:30 GMT -5
Ummmm. It would appear that I have managed to stifle responses here. Sorry about that! The good news is that I have probably said about all that I have to say in this one fell swoop, so carry on, everyone!!!
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Post by honeybzzzs on Aug 8, 2017 18:50:32 GMT -5
My sympathies went out to the guy that was trapped and trying to keep his head above the molasses. After 2 hours he became so exhausted that he had to just give up and let himself drown in molasses. I think drowning would be a terrible way to die, so to have to make that decision would be heartbreaking. And to drown in something as thick as molasses must have been unbearable.
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Post by moosishun on Aug 9, 2017 4:48:39 GMT -5
DAY THREE:
Okay! The question you have all been waiting for! (thanks to Fair!)
How did reading this book remind you of our political climate and/or attitude toward immigrants today?
KABOOM
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Post by moosishun on Aug 9, 2017 8:15:03 GMT -5
I'll bite!
I am really taken with the thoughts of immigration then and now. Certain Italian immigrants (anarchists) *were* dangerous as are certain Middle-Eastern immigrants (terrorists). What is so very interesting to me is that both factions wanted to overthrow the American Government and took steps to do that very thing. They would use terrorism and targeted bombing to see their aims met. The killing of innocents would have been viewed as a "necessary sacrifice" to move forward.
Ths governmental response looks very similar today - throwing the baby out with the bath water. Be distrustful of all people from those cultural group, be willing to take illegal action against them in order to try to protect our country, make assimilation into American life very difficult, etc. 100 years later. Huh.
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Post by crewer on Aug 9, 2017 8:23:19 GMT -5
It's interesting to be reminded about how many things aren't that different today than they were in our past.
Be back later (I hope).
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Post by bernelli on Aug 9, 2017 8:26:07 GMT -5
Crewer put it really well for me. I was surprised that upheavals today are much the same as what they were back then.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 9:01:25 GMT -5
I'll be back. I'm having a crazy week at work.
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Post by balancedlife on Aug 9, 2017 9:46:15 GMT -5
Gotta run the wee doggy to the vet for her cold laser therapy. Will be back later and am most eager to read the discussion of this question. Ha! I am hoping that someone here comes up with solutions for our current political problems! I mean, things have been weird (and occasionally funny), but, of late, I am getting wildly worried.
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Post by moosishun on Aug 9, 2017 10:35:05 GMT -5
I also see that the person in the Presidential office is doing his best to decimate some of the very organizations created to protect the American public from greedy business people who could care less about safety and the environment. And also, it is frightening to see that even as a common person would be terrified of another major war, there are some businesses that are probably gearing up for the opportunities to be made if America went to war.
Flint, Michigan was a good example of government at its worst. Not protecting its poorer residents and actually lying about the problems with the water. Ugh.
On the other hand, it's very interesting that the Washington Post had a blistering article on Kansas and the Republican legislation towing the line to not raise taxes and spelled doom-and-gloom for its future, when one of the most heavily taxed states, Illinois, is in similar and terrible trouble. Forbes gave that perspective. I do know that Maryland, another tax-crazy place, has a heck of a time keeping big companies in the state, while right across the Potomac, Virginia is a lot more inviting.
However, this is all up for discussion, because I really only know what I read in the paper and on the net.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 11:42:36 GMT -5
I'm so busy at work, I can't breathe.
Taking a few to say how impacted I was at how little we've changed. Goverment , big corporations, and then when the bombings started I couldn't even believe it. Rather than political, I guess I was stunned by the human condition. If there is a God, he must be shaking His head.
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Post by bumblebuzz21 on Aug 9, 2017 12:12:45 GMT -5
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Post by mary~m on Aug 9, 2017 14:28:58 GMT -5
Sadly, I don't things have changed very much. We so quickly label immigrants as different, instead of seeing the basic humanity we all share.
I think it's a human nature thing, vs. any one country. But in this time and place, everyone gets a microphone, so I feel like we hear a lot more anti-immigrant rhetoric at a larger volume.
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Post by moosishun on Aug 9, 2017 15:18:57 GMT -5
Okay, since I am on a roll today, I will say that many things have been improved in regards to safety laws and inspections. OSHA, Social Security, the Clean Water Act, the Toxic Substances Control Act, Disability, Workman's Comp, Unemployment, all of these were non-existant in 1919, weren't they? Fortunately, a Flint Michigan is not the rule but is the exception and it looks like those officials are getting into all kinds of trouble. Even though the big corporations have big guns, they still have some accountability and hopefully there will be more and more transparency.
We may be seeing exposes of all kinds of things, which is good, and it keeps us vigilant for the right thing to be done (I am such a pollyanna). If we can be prevented from a nuclear holocaust with North Korea, I will say that we have come a long way. *crossing fingers*
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