Cyn
This space for rent
Posts: 31,496
|
Post by Cyn on Dec 21, 2018 8:54:26 GMT -5
I need to ponder this question a bit.
I'm going to watch the 1966 version of this that I've got taping from TCM now.
|
|
|
Post by itsrad on Dec 21, 2018 9:04:43 GMT -5
I liked the way she ended it (with the epilogue) because it was completely unexpected. I thought it was a bit clever since it enabled her to have the island discovered with noone alive, and left the police flummoxed. I think if she had brought in a super sleuth at the end it would have been even more unbelievable to have it solved that way.
That being said, I don't think I really liked the book in retrospect. (Although I admit I couldn't put it down.) Maybe because it seems too contrived to me - I don't really think anyone could be clever enough to have 9 other people behave exactly the way I want them to - at some point his plan would have fallen apart if a character acted differently than he expected.
|
|
|
Post by melbre on Dec 21, 2018 9:37:14 GMT -5
As frustrated as I was with the ending and realizing that there was no way for the reader to figure it all out without the elipogue, I thought it was an interesting way for AC to wrap things up. While the judge was smug and condescending in his letter, I thought it was more chilling to hear how the murders were carried out directly from the killer, rather than an investigator at the end. I would’ve felt more frustrated if she suddenly had some unknown character show up at the end to be the murderer. Thanks gemster for leading a great discussion for us!
|
|
|
Post by ashtangi on Dec 21, 2018 9:44:39 GMT -5
I read a lot of mysteries and I don't think I've ever, with the exception of Murder on the Orient Express, figured out who did it, so I wasn't bothered at all that it wasn't a solvable crime. I enjoyed that she left it with the detectives being stumped. I imagine it would have been quite the sensation if it was ever leaked to the public, and I do wonder if the police let anyone else know about the solution, because I think I remember from the epilogue that the public was interested in the murders. Say what you might about her characters and generalizations, but Agatha was really ahead of her time and I think she was right to be proud of this book in particular. I've really enjoyed the discussion this week, thank you gemster and everyone!
|
|
Mashy
This space for rent
Posts: 15,049
|
Post by Mashy on Dec 21, 2018 10:37:20 GMT -5
I see I stand pretty much alone in my aggravation. So be it!
💃 <————— (she’s flouncing)
|
|
|
Post by cinderrose on Dec 21, 2018 11:17:32 GMT -5
The first time I read the book was for a class in high school. We read it more as a character study and the mystery was secondary. I remember we looked at classism - how the judge and doctor were naturals for an alliance because they were part of the same level of society, same with Lombard and Blore. I also remember we looked at the deaths. Three times children died (1) due to recklessness, but no intent (Morston) (2) sin of omission (withdrawing employment from Beatrice resulted in her death and her unborn child (3) sin of commission (arranging for Cyril to drown). That lead again to a discussion about society and classism. Lombard contributed to 21 deaths - of inconsequential people - it is not like a child died. Vera on the other hand was held to a higher standard. She was a woman - one who was expected to be nurturing and maternal. Not only was she a murderer but also she violated a sacred societal taboo and female archetype. That then lead to a discussion of, what if the roles had been reversed. What if Hugo had allowed Vera's nephew to drown so that she would have inherited, and they could have married? Would the judge have put Hugo in last place like Vera?
When I read it the first time, I didn't read for the mystery but for the character study. The mystery was almost an after thought. I was fine with the judge's epilogue. We did have a discussion about that but sort of dismissed it because the chances of all of his plans working -even in the 1930's - were remote. Like I said yesterday - what was his contingency if Vera hadn't gotten the gun from Lombard? Considering Lombard's complete lack of remorse - driving him to suicide was not going to happen. What if Lombard, with the gun, had walked away and not Blore? Just too many moving pieces to actually take seriously.
|
|
|
Post by balancedlife on Dec 21, 2018 12:40:11 GMT -5
I think Hercule would have had to have lined up all those dead people and pointed at them as he unraveled everything. It would have been QUITE messy in more ways than one. I am laughing soooooo hard over this! What I do enjoy is finding that once the answer is revealed that the clues had been placed throughout the story all along if I had only noticed. Yes! That is exactly what I was missing and wishing for and why I didn't love the book But, man, it generated such a great discussion!!! Many thanks, gemster, for a rattling good time!
|
|
|
Post by moosishun on Dec 21, 2018 13:07:51 GMT -5
The classism was very interesting. The sexism was annoying but I gave it a pass, especially after Vera took it to Lombard at the end! Ha! The meanness about certain people being better than others and labeling them as inconsequential was such a character flaw. I think that Agatha even saw it as that, don't you? It made me dislike Lombard possibly the most. The Judge sure didn't.
*gavel striking 9 times*
|
|
|
Post by moosishun on Dec 21, 2018 13:09:43 GMT -5
I actually got the Judge and the General mixed up and Blore and Lombard mixed up. They were of similar economic and social cloth!
Now that I think of it, I am surprised the Judge had such a lethal opinion of Emily, seeing that he had such a righteous rod up his butt as well.
|
|
|
Post by honeybzzzs on Dec 21, 2018 14:14:51 GMT -5
Crazy busy at work today so I can’t discuss much.
Just wanted to say that I think Wargrave had plans A, B, C, and D all lined up just in case “things didn’t go as he expected”. He would have gotten them all in the end.
I never seem to figure out whodunnit so I’m mostly along for the ride until the Big Reveal. I liked the epilogue. Nice touch. And it got me to wondering when he wrote it and when he tossed it into the bay. He would consult tide charts to make sure it didn’t return to shore and be discovered by his soon-to-be victims. I liked that twist
As always, enjoyed the discussion. Now, back to work I go.
|
|
Mashy
This space for rent
Posts: 15,049
|
Post by Mashy on Dec 21, 2018 14:23:57 GMT -5
——————> 💃 (Now she’s flouncing backwards)
I have truly enjoyed our discussion. Thanks Gem!
|
|
lee058
This space for rent
Posts: 22,802
|
Post by lee058 on Dec 21, 2018 15:07:27 GMT -5
By rereading the book after many years, and after seeing the BBC version, I was much more impressed by it. When I was younger, I missed so much that now stood out (as several people here have pointed out, i.e., the sexism, racism, classism, etc. etc. etc.). I think the epilogue was important because for me it put all the pieces together, smugness included. Thanks gemster and everybody else! This week has been terrific and I've enjoyed our discussions very much.
|
|
|
Post by itsrad on Dec 21, 2018 15:38:25 GMT -5
Thanks gemster and everybody for a great discussion. I enjoyed it, and it did make me look at the book and characters differently. Not my favorite AC, but she always delivers something to think about.
|
|
|
Post by ccToast on Dec 21, 2018 16:14:18 GMT -5
I have very much enjoyed this discussion. gemster Thank you for leading us this week.
|
|
Cyn
This space for rent
Posts: 31,496
|
Post by Cyn on Dec 21, 2018 16:49:55 GMT -5
This has been fun. I haven't finished the movie yet, but I will say it is pretty cheesy and hilarious, in a very 60's way. Fabian is Marston, though his character is an American pop star,baby. Emily is a Sophia Loren-like actress, who slouches around and has on so much makeup she looks dirty. ETA She caused her husband's death. Hugh O'Brian is very hot and has already had his shirt off as Lombard. His crime was very different from the racist one in the book, I haven't gotten to his confession yet. The setting is a Berchtesgarden-type mountaintop chalet in Austria, and they're snowbound. Vera looks like Nancy Sinatra, and has quite the pair of headlights. The music is ominous, in an obvious, Dark Shadows kind of way. Do try to find it, and the BBC Production too, if you haven't already seen that one. I'm not sure I can really add much to what everyone else said. Thanks so much, gemster , and everyone for joining. I'm looking forward to some of the other books with y'all! I already have me copy of Tree Grows In Brooklyn ready to go...
|
|
|
Post by gemster on Dec 21, 2018 16:55:17 GMT -5
I’ve really enjoyed the discussion too, thank you all for joining in. I’ve read this book so many times over the years but I’ve picked up on different things and got so many different perspectives from all of you. If you can find it over there, I’d definitely try and watch the bbc tv series, I’m re-watching it now and it’s fascinating seeing all the characters brought to life and rounded out. I’d forgotten some of the changes they made as well - they actually make out some of the Bad Deeds to be a lot worse than they are in the book. And for anyone who enjoys a good Agatha Christie adaptation the ABC murders (Hercule Poirot) is being shown on the bbc over Christmas with John Malkovich as HP. Not sure how I feel about that I love David Suchet as HP so much but I’ll give it a try and report back, presume it will be shown in the US sometime in 2019. www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-12-21/the-abc-murders-bbc1-christmas-2018-air-date-time-cast-trailer/
|
|
|
Post by ccToast on Dec 21, 2018 18:02:50 GMT -5
Amazon Prime has a 1945 version of Ten Little Indians starring Barry Fitzgerald as the judge and Walter Huston as the doctor.
The Trivia notes state that this version is not based on the book but on the AC very similar play. "While the identity of the murderer is the same in the two versions, the survivors of each tale are different."
Were there survivors in the book that I missed--perhaps Narracott with the boat?
|
|
|
Post by peacemama on Dec 22, 2018 11:38:33 GMT -5
I just caught up reading the posts/comments from the end of the week. gemster Thanks for facilitating the discussion, which sparked such a thoughtful analysis of the book. I love these regular book club visits of Christie's mysteries. Maybe Ackroyd next -- in the spring or summer?
|
|
|
Post by peacemama on Dec 22, 2018 11:45:46 GMT -5
From GoodReads: And Then There Were None has a 4.25 avg rating from 588,695 reviews. Still near the top of the all time best selling novels, which explains why some of you encountered a wait list as your local library.
|
|
|
Post by gemster on Dec 22, 2018 14:59:41 GMT -5
I just caught up reading the posts/comments from the end of the week. gemster Thanks for facilitating the discussion, which sparked such a thoughtful analysis of the book. I love these regular book club visits of Christie's mysteries. Maybe Ackroyd next -- in the spring or summer? I’d most definitely be up for that and Ackroyd is one of my favourites.
|
|