GDT Bookclub - Agatha Christie’s Death on the Nile

[lindarx]

As to Simon? He was no catch in my opinion. Jackie might have thought it was the best she could do. But, Linnet? She was either just in competition with Jackie or was a dang fool.

[bailey]

The author certainly didn't make a compelling case as to why Simon was so irresistible to two women. Linnet seemed like a strong willed, intelligent young women. Was the idea that he was off limits that made him appealing? She would have her pick on the marriage market.

I really did like Cornelia and I was so happy that she got a happy ending of her choosing. That was fantastic.

I haven't read much Agatha Christie for a long time and this may have been my first HP. I enjoyed him very much.

ps whenever I read HP in this thread, I automatically think Harry Potter.

pps Gal Gadot playing a 20 year old seems like a stretch. Her age is an important part of the story. I don't know how old Gal Gadot is but she seems too old to play Linnet.

[moosishun]

I really wanted Cornelia with that Ferguson feller. Here is my take on that: She goes and marries the doctor, Ferguson repents of his mean and ornery ways, the Doctor dies of purely natural causes about 10 years into the marriage, and in 10 years time, Ferguson has turned into a pretty nice chap and woos Cornelia in the ways of a nice chap, knowing that she is the fairest of them all!

I didn't much care for Tim and Rosalie, so I don't have a story for them.

However, Mrs. A. catches another wonderful man - Colonel Race!!!

[moosishun]

Simon filled out a pair of britches. That's all I got.

[ermabom]

I never developed a mental picture of Simon (I haven’t seen any movie based on this book). I didn’t see anything of his character in what he said or did that would have attracted two strong women to him, except that he was attentive to Linnet. What made Jackie fall so hard for him, what made Linnet marry him (vs. having an affair with him), and what made Jackie so devoted that she was willing to murder, is completely beyond me.

I am rereading some Dana Stabenow mysteries right now and she says of one man that even though the woman looking at him had been accustomed to good looking men because she worked with one, she found this guy really good looking. That is repeated over and over again by other women in the book. So you get that the guy is really good looking. AC doesn’t give us any descriptions of Simon that give that clear a picture of the man. Maybe that was the point. Both strong women felt he would be devoted to them and they could control him.

As for the other marriages/relationships, I have no idea except maybe that being unmarried in those times was seen as a really bad thing. I prefer Dr. B for Cornelia as I think she will have more intellectual stimulation married to him than to Ferguson - who is weird anyway. To her I think that was a solid relationship to a dependable man. I also think she is quite intelligent and wants the intellectual aspect of the partnership. I have no opinion on the Tim/Rosalie one because I didn’t get a clear enough picture of either character that was positive or that showed them in depth in some aspect. The only thing I know is that Rosalie was determined to keep her mother’s alcoholism secret and Tim stole jewelry.

On the unmarried woman thing, I am reminded of Gaudy Night (by Dorothy Sayers). It is set in Oxford and there are a lot of unmarried women who are students (women had just been admitted to the uni maybe a decade earlier) and professors. The author talks about how the press attributes mental instability to all those women living together - unmarried. The implication I got was that they were assumed to be lesbians. There is also discussion among the professors about research and furthering ideas as a noble cause but this is not matched by those who are not academics. Harriet Vane (the protagonist) meets a former fellow student who has married a farmer and looks ten years older than she is and they get into a discussion about ‘real work’. How the land is a hard taskmaster but the work is real, implying that scholarship isn’t. This triggers a lot of thought in Harriet who is unmarried and a successful writer of mystery novels.

Anyway, AC was writing at about the same time (pre WWII) and I think that these were the general thoughts in society. There is something wrong with unmarried women. it is unnatural. Women should not be living together. Even Miss Marple is able to maintain her living conditions and travel and do some things because her successful novelist nephew takes care of her. Without a husband and children, she had no means of support in her old age - that is what I understand from that situation.

So maybe the whole marrying off thing is just that reflection of what society thinks. It is ok to be unmarried if you are young or very rich or taking care of a parent. Otherwise, not so much.

[leftylou]

I think Linnet only wanted Simon because he belonged to Jackie. I don’t know why Jackie was so hot on him.

But I’m old and cynical and the idea that I’d waste away for true love just makes me chuckle.

[gemster]

Last Day

Now that the discussing is done, what score would you give this book out of 5?
If you’ve read any other AC or HPs how would you rate it against them? and if you haven’t, would this book encourage you to read any others?

As a few people have mentioned they aren’t impressed with KBs choice for Linnet in the upcoming movie, if you were casting for DOTN who would you choose to play the lead characters? Or if you were a script writer would you make any changes or tweaks to the characters or the plot?

Any other final thoughts and opinions you’d like to share?

[lee058]

If I were a scriptwriter for the movie, I would develop Simon's appeal more, physically and emotionally. For Linnet, I would pick someone very different from Gal Gadot (who I think is amazing, but practically the opposite of how I picture Linnet). I see Linnet as being kind of medium-tall, very young (she's supposed to be only 20), and blond; healthy but maybe a little frail looking? At any rate, not particularly physically muscular. Jackie would be shorter, brown-haired, and very lively. I think she was supposed to be in her mid to late 20's.

I don't like rating books, so I'll just say that I liked it a lot, as I have almost every AC mystery. I hope we keep on reading them for the book club!

[leftylou]

I thoroughly enjoyed it. It wasn’t a deep or challenging read, but it seems like I’ve read a lot of those lately and a fun, easy to read palate cleanser is often just the thing. I’d give it a 4.

[Cyn]

I'm having fun reading these and keeping the Clublet going. I'd go 4 out of 5. 
I'd definitely keep reading these. I've bought all of them at the used bookstore, and was lucky since this title was included in an omnibus collection along with Orient Express. The Mirror Crack'd was in a collection as well, so I've got 7 or 8 others that I haven't yet read. I should nominate one of them for next time, since I've already got them in house.

I've liked reading some without one of the main character sleuths, as well as getting to know HP and MissM on the page.

I'd have to think about who I'd cast in these roles.

[honeybzzzs]

Wait, wait! I have a thought about Simon and why the women fell for him.
I think he was the charming narcissistic guy that new exactly what he was doing. Really really awful people can charm their way into people’s lives. Then slowly they take over and assert control.
I think he was playing the dumb lovable guy roil.

Jackie liked this and all his fun and attention. Plus, she had something to show off to her rich friend.

Linnet liked his style because she felt that someone was interested in her for more then her money or her status in the community.
I think in those days, especially for the very rich, it was expected that you marry within your class.
She was engaged to the “right” guy even though she didn’t love him.
When Simon came around and started “liking her for HER” she fell hook, line and sinker.

My question is more “What kind of woman would agree to kill her best friend on the suggestion of her boyfriend?”
To reminiscent on real true crime stories. Shudder....

With the other couplings. Women were expected to marry. Again, out of convenience and not necessarily love.
I’m from the generation of women that could be teachers, nurses, secretaries or airline stewardess.
I wanted to be a veterinarian. Women weren’t allowed in vet school.

And my older sister wanted to go to nursing school. She needed her husbands written permission before she could enroll in college.
And this wasn’t all that long ago.
We’ve come a long way but still have a ways to go.

All for now. I’ll answer tonight’s question later tonight.

[ermabom]

I am going to skip the casting question as I don't really watch movies and am not up on actors.

I would give this a 4 our of a 5. It is a quick read and the characters are not as interesting as in some of her other books but the plot is clever and I'm pretty sure very few people get the whodunnit. I think that makes for a good mystery where it is all about the whodunnit and whether one could guess or not.

Gemma, as always, a great week. Thank you and please, let's do 4:50 from Paddington or What Mrs. McGillicuddy Saw. I think the latter is the title in the UK.

[Deleted]

I would give a 3.5. The ending with the second pistol bothered me. It just seemed like something that A.C tried to sneak by the readers. Other then that, it was a good summer read and I really enjoyed hearing other people’s opinions on the book.

[itsrad]

I would give it a 3. Compared to other AC books, this was disappointing to me. Too many jumps without connections - why did Linnet fall for Simon, how did Rosalie end up with Tim .. it all felt disconnected to me. Of course, I am feeling particularly ornery these days, so it could be that. If I wasn't an AC fan, this book would probably have discouraged me from reading more.


As far as casting, I haven't a clue. I will go see the movie. Branaugh did an amazing job with the cinematography in OE, so that alone would make this worth seeing.

If I were tweaking the characters, I would work more on the central plot line. What did Linnet see in Simon? What did Jackie see in Simon?

gemster, thanks for leading this. I know it was my pick and I couldn't pull off leading it this time. You do a great job and I'm very appreciative. And I'll always be up for an AC clublet!!!!

[ccToast]

I very much enjoyed this book and our discussion. I would rate it 4 stars. I didn't guess whodunit, but if I could guess it, what fun would that be? Crooked House is still my favorite GDT AC book club selection, and I look forward to more in the future.

I picture a young Natalie Portman as Linnet, and someone like Channing Tatum as Simon. The others I picture in my mind, but I don't know which actors to cast.

gemster, Thank you for leading the discussion this week!

[balancedlife]

Since I am not a fan of HP, I haven't read many of AC's books featuring him so I will skip the rating. Also, I am not well-versed on current actors these days, so it's a big skip-a-roo on that, too.

Mostly, I am here to say thank you for a lovely and lively discussion, Gemster. It was great fun to read all the responses to your questions. Hmmm. The discussion was, for me, better than the book deserved -- LOL!

[gemster]

I think I'd give it a 3.5, I liked the main plot but felt some of the characters (especially Simon!) were not well fleshed out and there were too many superfluous characters and too many subplots that all seemed a bit shoehorned in and very rushed at the end.

My favourite ACs are the HP books set in England with Hastings and/or Japp (ideally both), I think HP seems much more human and likeable on home turf and has more of a sense of identity and a little family (he also has a secretary and a valet). Some of the books are written from the point of view of Hastings who is not a genius crime solver like HP, so makes them more reader friendly as he gets confused/goes off on the wrong track like we do!

Even though I asked the question I am no good at casting as I don't watch movies and have no idea who most actors are. I did think the TV show got the casting pretty spot on.
www.imdb.com/title/tt0406516/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm
Emily Blunt as Linnet did look older than 20 but not outrageously so and I think wealthy young women in the 30s did probably look older due to the fashions, hairstyles and makeup.

If I was script writing again I'd probably do similar to the TV show and cut out the English lawyer, the terrorist and the nurse and I think I'd do like they did and have Tim as gay which I thought was more believable that the rushed romance with Rosalie.

I'm definitely up for an AC clublet if we have time to fit one in maybe in a couple of months time?
Yes 4.50 from Paddington would be a good one ermabom though I'm not the greatest fan of Miss M there are some good characters in that one IIRC.

[leftylou]

Yes thanks gemster! I’d also be happy to read more AC, so I’m in for a clublet.

[allie]

I’d give it a 2 out of 5. I just really had a hard time getting into it and even finishing it. I don’t really think AC is for me and that’s ok

[honeybzzzs]

I think I’ll give it a 3.5.
I would have liked a few less characters. I would have liked the murder/murders to have happened sooner so more time could have been spent on the sleuthing. I felt the ending was rather rushed to tie everything together.
I liked that I got to know HP better. He sort of makes me smile.
While this isn’t my favorite of the AC’s that we have read for book club, it is hands down much better then that Eleanor book we are doing next. Barely a 1 for that one. (Just my opinion)

I’ll skip the question on casting. I’m not up on the current TV/movie stars.

Once again, thank you Gemster. Enjoyed the discussion as always. Looking forward to the next AC.

[ermabom]

I agree with gemster that the ones set in England are better. I like the Japp ones better than the Hastings ones because I don’t like Hastings. I don’t know why he irritates me.

AC isn’t for everyone. It is is set in a particular place and time and unless you can relate to that, it is not believable. Or maybe the word is relevant or relatable. I’m not sure.

I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about why I think AC is dated but I don’t think Lord Peter Wimsey (Dorothy Sayers) isn’t. I think it maybe because Sayers tackles pretty modern ideas like women’s independence, women earning their own living, women being entrepreneurs, and brings in different classes of people. Wimsey is a rich nobleman but one book is about people working in an advertising agency and she fleshes out characters who are at different income levels. In another book, Wimsey hires a poor unmarried woman to do some detecting for him and eventually sets her up as the head of an investigative agency that uses women like her to do the work because they can ask questions and be nosy and no one thinks anything of it. She describes drug use among the rich and not so rich. She talks about misogyny. Not so much racism - it is still a very white society but some of these ideas are quite modern and she was writing in the 20s.

If anyone is interested, we could do a Gaudy Night clublet. Or Murder Must Advertise.

[balancedlife]

Jul 26, 2019 11:31:57 GMT -5 ermabom said:

If anyone is interested

I would be willing to give Sayers a try, so please let me know if this clublet plan comes to fruition. Choosing the specific book would be left up to you and other folks who are more versed in her output.

[ermabom]

Whose Body is not one of my favorites. It is also the earliest Wimsey I think and while I like it OK now I didn’t like it when I first read it.

I have 3 favorite Wimsey novels - Gaudy Night, Murder Must Advertise, and Busman’s Honeymoon. The last is probably a favorite for the relationship and the characters rather than the mystery (although it is good).

Since I’m not in the book club as a whole, let me know if you want to do a Sayers clublet at some point. I can give you a couple of quick plot summaries so you can pick one.

[lee058]

ermabom, I love Dorothy Sayers and have all her books.

[ccToast]

Jul 26, 2019 12:54:33 GMT -5 ermabom said:

I’m not in the book club as a whole

Um, who's going to break it to ermabom that once you're in book club, you're always in book club. Like it or not.